Rods rebuttal

In the previous post I blasted a Yahoo News commentor name Rod, and he didn’t seem to like me calling him a moron so he said this:

“@Blue Dela Kanluran At… tignan nga natin kung may isa man lang kumagat sa website na ipinost mo UNGAS! E simple lang naman mag-isip ang mga tao at saka ang talagang argumento naman tungkol sa RH Bil e yung paggamit ng mga artificial contraceptives na kinokontra rin ng Simbahan at sa mga ibang grupo pang may nalalaman din sa mga posibleng idudulot na hindi maganda ng mga aangkating kung anu-anong gamit at mga gamot e na abortifacients ang iba nga rito kung kaya nagkakagulo ang society natin pero ikaw kung sino ka mang nagmamagaling HUNGHANG e wala ka rin naman sa hulog na gagawa ng blog na gustong magpasikat pero ewan ko lang kung hindi ka rin namang TANGA pagdating sa usapin talaga ng tungkol sa talagang nakapaloob na sa Bill na yan na hindi alam ng karamihan sa mga Filipino. Sa ipinost mong mong website KKUPAL ka e mas nakakatulong pa ako sa mga kababayan natin dahil kahit papaano mga post ko may saysay samantalang ikaw e isang website lang na hindi nga malaman kung may kakagat na makipagtalo sa iyo roon TANGA!”

To which I replied:

“Actually, you started this fire fight when you made the RH Bill, in your earlier comment, a threat to the Democracy of the Philippines (in capital letters no less). And now your claiming the real issues are the use of contraceptives.

Fyi, thanks to my post the site has gained a fair amount of traffic so yes, (in your words) may kumagat.

Hmm. you declare that you are the one that has claims that actually help the Filipino because you’re the one whose statements have the most sense. When I systematically proved that you are grossly out of touch with current reality and issues by making the RH Bill about a threat to democracy.”

Then he issued me challenge:

“@Blue Dela Kanluran Now…Brod come back here and read all my posts about those artificial contraceptives which to be use in the RH Bill if becomes a law. Explain to the people of the Philippines about these devices or pills and not posting a website which I don’t know who owns that. It maybe you. @#$% i n g M O R O N! You are a Bloody B a s t a r d B i t c h! GAGO ka!”

(He like hitting that Caps Lock doesn’t he). So I said ok let’s see these posts that prove the evils of contraceptives that only the Church and its followers seem to see.

Rod: “Side effects of IUD

Vaginal Cramps

This is usually seen in the first few hours to a few days after the implantation of the IUD inside the vagina. Because it is a foreign body, the structures of the vagina have to get acclimatized first with the presence of the IUD.

The muscles around the vagina usually contract in an attempt to remove the IUD, but because it is firmly situated in its place, the contracting only results to vaginal cramps.

Fever

Again, this is caused by the mere presence of the IUD as a foreign body. Just like any foreign body, one of the body’s way to attempt o remove something is by changing the over-all temperature.”

Me: “An intrauterine device (IUD) is a small, plastic device that is put into the uterus (womb) to stop a woman from getting pregnant.

Some women who use the IUD have more bleeding during and between
their periods. The copper IUD also can cause cramps. Cramps can be
helped by an OVER-THE-COUNTER PAIN MEDICINE like ibuprofen or naproxen.
The cramps can go away after the first few months as the uterus gets used
to the IUD. Some women who use the hormone IUD notice that after a while their
period get short and light, and some women may have their period stop completely.

Myths about IUD’s
1. IUD’s and dangerous and cause serious infection.
2. IUD’s cause pregnancies outside the uterus.
3. IUD’s can make you sterile.
4. An IUD works by causing an abortion.

Truth:
1. Today IUD’s are safe and do not cause infection. Sexually transmitted disease or bacteria entering the womb during insertion of the IUD are usually the cause of the infection (if you already have it). The risk of infection is slightly increased only during the first three weeks after getting an IUD and this risk is still very low.
2. Overall, copper IUD’s protect the user against having an ectopic (outside the uterus) pregnancy. IUD user are less than half as likely to have an ectopic pregnancy as women who use no contraception.
3. IUD usually does not affect your ability to have children. Most women who stop using IUD’s in order to become pregnant are able to conceive quickly.
4. The latest evidence suggests that IUD’s work mainly by preventing sperm from fertilizing the egg. The IUD does not work by causing an abortion.

You should not use the IUD if you:
are pregnant
are allergic to copper (for copper IUD only)
have a uterus that is shorter or smaller than the IUD
have an artificial heart valve
are at risk for getting a sexually transmitted disease
have a recent history of pelvic inflammatory disease or STDs
have cervical, endometrial, or ovarian cancer that needs treatment

http://www.familyplanning.org/pdf/Facts_About_IUDs.pdf

So the seriousness of the side effect you’re describing here has the same gravity as the headaches in the John Lloyd commercials. This is the kind of thing that they’ll be teaching when the RH Bill is passed.

Rod: “Vasectomy Side Effects

As mentioned above, side effects of vasectomy are very rare, but, complications may arise in some cases. The immediate vasectomy side effects include inflammation of the area, bruising of the scrotum, bleeding inside the scrotum (hematoma), blood in the semen, etc. Discomfort in the area is one of the most common and immediate vasectomy side effects. Pain is also experienced by those who have undergone this surgery. However, all these side effects subside within a week or so. The following are some of the vasectomy side effects, which are little bit severe, as compared to the previous ones.

* Infection can develop at the site of surgery and as a result the area gets red and inflamed. The person may also experience fever and intense pain. The infection can spread to the epididymis too. Some people develop abscesses, which are very rare as vasectomy side effect. Itching may occur as the hair in the area grows back, but will subside as the hair grows fully.
* Vasectomy side effects include sperm granuloma, wherein the sperms escape through the cut portion of the vas deferens and collect in the nearby tissues resulting in the development of a painful mass in the scrotum. It can happen within some weeks or months from the date of vasectomy. Most cases can be treated with anti-inflammatory medicines, but, bigger ones have to removed surgically.
* Some people experience erectile dysfunction or decreased sexual drive after vasectomy. They may face impotence, painful intercourse or premature ejaculation. However, studies show that such side effects are not caused by the surgical procedure, but, are psychological in nature.
* Long term vasectomy side effects include immune reaction of the body towards its own sperms. The body produces antibodies in the testes, that act against the sperms. This reaction can lead to other problems, like, atherosclerosis, cancer, etc.

Some people may experience a fullness in the testes, which if persists, needs medical attention. If a sexual partner conceives after vasectomy, it can also be considered as a complication, as it points towards a failed surgical procedure. The worst side effect is that this process is not easily reversible. Vasectomy reversal is more complicated and risky too. Read more on vasectomy complications and side effects.”

Me: “Vasectomy is one of the more serious methods of contraception and when the RH Bill is passed doctors and health workers will inform men who are seeking this treatment of its gravity. Men who opt for this procedure usually plan on not having children at all.
I’ll just use your own words here.

Infection can develop at the site of surgery and as a result the area gets red and inflamed. The person may also experience fever and intense pain. The infection can spread to the epididymis too. Some people develop abscesses, which are VERY RARE as vasectomy side effect. Itching may occur as the hair in the area grows back, but WILL SUBSIDE as the hair grows fully.

(Just an additional point. The condition your describing above is called Epididymitis and according to http://menshealth.about.com/cs/surgery/a/vasectomy.htm this condition subsides in about a week.)

Vasectomy side effects include sperm granuloma, wherein the sperms escape through the cut portion of the vas deferens and collect in the nearby tissues resulting in the development of a painful mass in the scrotum. It can happen within some weeks or months from the date of vasectomy. Most cases can be TREATED WITH ANTI-INFLAMMATORY MEDICINES, but, bigger ones have to removed surgically.

(And removing it surgically won’t be a problem if the RH Bill is passed because it states that all costs incurred by reproductive medical nuances such as this will be covered by PhilHealth)

Some people experience erectile dysfunction or decreased sexual drive after vasectomy. They may face impotence, painful intercourse or premature ejaculation. HOWEVER, STUDIES SHOW THAT SUCH SIDE EFFECTS ARE NOT CAUSED BY THE SURGICAL PROCEDURE, BUT, ARE PSYCHOLOGICAL IN NATURE.

(The next one is actually new to me so I did a little research and came up with this)

Atherosclerosis develops from LOW-DENSITY LIPOPROTEIN MOLECULES (LDL) becoming oxidized (ldl-ox) by free radicals[citation needed], particularly reactive oxygen species (ROS). When oxidized LDL comes in contact with an artery wall, a series of reactions occur to repair the damage to the artery wall caused by oxidized LDL.

The body’s immune system responds to the damage to the artery wall caused by oxidized LDL by sending specialized white blood cells (macrophages and T-lymphocytes) to absorb the oxidized-LDL forming specialized foam cells. These white blood cells are not able to process the oxidized-LDL, and ultimately grow then rupture, depositing a greater amount of oxidized cholesterol into the artery wall. This triggers more white blood cells, continuing the cycle.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atherosclerosis#Causes)

Low density lipoproteins, also referred to as LDL, is known as the “bad cholesterol”. LDLs are PRODUCED BY THE LIVER and carry cholesterol and other lipids (fats) from the liver to different areas of the body, like muscles, tissues, organs, and the heart.

(http://cholesterol.about.com/cs/cholesteroltypes/a/lipotypes.htm)
(I’ve cited my sources. If you have a problem with it take it up with them.)

Some people may experience a fullness in the testes, which if persists, needs medical attention. If a sexual partner conceives after vasectomy, it can also be considered as a complication, as it points towards a failed surgical procedure.

(Failures can occur as often as 0.2%-5% of the time. A probabilty rate of 11 out of 1,000. And that is if the men do not conduct follow-up tests for semen analysis after the procedure as required.)

The worst side effect is that this process is not easily reversible.

(Yes, that is why http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=23219 defines vasectomy as: surgical procedure designed to make a man STERILE by cutting or blocking both the right and left vas deferens, the tubes through which sperm pass into the ejaculate.)

Vasectomy reversal is more complicated and risky too. Read more on vasectomy complications and side effects.”

Rod: “Negative Side Effects of Condoms

Latex Aller—-

Many condoms are made from rubber latex, which comes from the fluid in rubber trees. The American Academy of Aller—-, Asthma & Immunolo—- notes that some people experience an allergic response to the protein in the rubber. Symptoms can vary in presentation and severity, ranging from sneezing, runny nose, hives, itching or flushing to more severe signs and symptoms, such as wheezing, swelling, dizziness, and lightheadedness. In certain instances, latex allergies can invoke anaphylaxis, a life-threatening condition. According to Planned Parenthood, only one or two people out of every 100 has latex aller—-. The AAAAI notes that those who have latex allergies should use synthetic rubber condoms as a second choice.
Not Effective Against All STDs

Planned Parenthood notes that condoms are proven highly effective against HIV and reduce the risk of other diseases, such as syphilis, chlamydia, gonorrhea and HPV. However, they do not afford protection against sexually transmitted diseases that can affect the outer layers of the skin, such as scabies infections and molluscum contagiosum. The American Social Health Association notes that although condoms can reduce the risk of genital herpes, they don’t protect every part of the skin in which the herpes virus can asymptomatically shed and be transmitted to an infected sexual partner. Additionally, not all condoms are created equal: natural skin condoms (lambskin) are an effective measure of birth control but are porous enough to allow HIV and other STDs to be transmitted to a sexual partner.

Partner Resistance

Perhaps the most notable negative side effect of condoms is a sexual partner’s resistance to using them. Some men claim they experience a loss in sensation when using condoms, find them unromantic or take offense at being asked to wear them. Planned Parenthood notes that many men can overcome their resistance to using condoms and suggests trying out different styles and sizes to find the brand that’s most comfortable to both partners.”

Me: “”According to Planned Parenthood, only one or two people out of every 100 people has latex allergies. The AAAAI notes that those who have latex allergies should use synthetic rubber condoms as a second choice.”

(Thanks for providing the remedy to your own side effect)

Scabies infections are common skin infestation that causes small itchy bumps and blisters due to tiny mites called Sarcoptes scabiei. It is contagious, and is usually transmitted by prolonged skin-to-skin contact. (even children can get it.)

Molluscum contagiosum (MC) is a viral infection of the skin or occasionally of the mucous membranes. It is caused by a DNA poxvirus called the molluscum contagiosum virus (MCV). The virus commonly spreads through skin-to-skin contact. This includes sexual contact or touching or scratching the bumps and then touching the skin.

(Needless to say that sex demands prolonged skin-to-skin contact.)
(These viruses are both transmitted through physical contact and not specifically through sex like HIV and HPV. Therefore the responsibility to prevent them can hardly be laid squarely on the shoulders of condoms.)

http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/skin/scabies.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molluscum_contagiosum

Yes genital herpes is a nasty piece of work and the use of condoms can only reduce the chances of being infected by about 50% if your partner is infected with it. However, I argue that condoms are still the best and most easily available method to preventing genital herpes and thus cannot be considered as a negative side effect.

Last I checked lambskin condoms became near extinct after 1839 when Charles Goodyear (yes the tires) discovered a way of processing natural rubber. Which proved advantages in the manufacture of condoms.

If the most notable side effect to using condoms is a partners resistance then its nothing to be worried about at all. The RH Bil does provide information on other family planning methods and the couple can CHOOSE which method is best suited for them. Which is the beauty of the Bill really, the ability of choice.

Looking back the only “side effect” you’ve presented here would be the first one that is relatively rare and easily remedied. The other maladies were not caused by condoms and therefore cannot be labeled as “side-effects.”

Rod: “Side Effects of Birth Control Pills

A few common side effects of birth control pills include nausea, spotting between periods, and headache. Several factors play a role in determining which side effects are likely (or unlikely) to occur, including the strength of the estrogen, the type of progestin, and the dose of progestin. Certain birth control pill side effects are more serious and require immediate medical attention, such as depression, pain in the calf, and migraines.Based on information available, some of the common birth control pill side effects include but are not limited to:

Based on information available, some of the common birth control pill side effects includes:

* Acne, although birth control pills can also improve acne (see Birth Control Pills and Acne)
* Breast tenderness and enlargement
* Breakthrough bleeding and spotting between periods
* Nausea and vomiting
* Changes in your eyes that make it more difficult to wear contact lenses
* Bloating
* Headaches
* Changes in sex drive (typically a decrease).”

Me: “A bit squiffy on the first one since it can either worsen or improve acne, not much of an argument.

*Breast enlargement…this is a bad thing how?

*The most common cause of breakthrough bleeding is the patient’s failure to accurately follow the instructions for the medication. The directions should be read thoroughly and any questions should be discussed with the patient’s gynecologist before use.

*For nausea and vommitting here are a few tips to remedy it:

1. Take a birth control pill with or after a meal. This will help coat the pill while it goes into the stomach and it won’t be quite as rough on a full stomach. If you absolutely cannot take the pill during a meal, take it with milk or something with substance rather than coffee or water. This will hopefully have the same effect. Also, according to Planned Parenthood, you may also be able to help reduce nausea by taking the birth control pill in the evening instead of in the morning.

2.Go see your gynecologist if you are still having problems. Many times the doctor will ask you to continue the same pill for a couple more days if you are just starting on it, just to see if the side effects wear down. If not, then he will likely recommend that you go off of that certain (brand) birth control pill.

3.Get a different prescription if you want to continue with the birth control pill. Sometimes a doctor will be hesitant to do this depending on the symptoms and side effects that you are having, but different people will respond differently to the different types of birth control pills. Allow an adjustment period for taking these new pills. Also, make sure that you take the pill for several days, possibly even weeks, before deciding that it isn’t working.

4.Choose a different birth control option, such as condoms. Many times nausea caused by birth control pills will happen no matter what pill you are on. When it gets to that point that your only two options are to simply put up with the nausea or to get off of “the pill,” there are several other options out there that you could try that could have weaker or no side effects and be just as effective.

*With studies of recent low dose oral contraceptives, the whole premise as to whether there is any change in weight at all with beginning oral contraceptives is in question (1). This and other studies indicate that, on the average, women do not gain weight because of the pills. Remember this means that if 5-10% of women report weight gain when starting oral contraceptives, there is an identical 5-10% of women who gain weight even though they did not get active birth control pills. In other words the weight gain with pills was coincidental but not a cause and effect.

*Headaches are a common symptom of premenstrual syndrome, and many women with migraines report headaches before or during menstruation (menstruation not because of the pill).

http://www.ehow.com

http://www.wdxcyber.com/ncontr11.htm

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/headaches/HE00003

In your last post you cited studies (for once) that say IUD’s and birth control pills are abortificients. I will do you one better and cite three studies that say otherwise.

http://www.pregna.com/html/writeup_ideals.pdf

http://www.popcouncil.org/pdfs/Sivin.pdf

If you’ve already noticed most of the side effects he’s touted as caused by contraceptives are not serious enough to cause concern and could even be caused by circumstances other than contraceptives. Any serious side effects are rare and remedies are already available.

There you go, I’ve explained and countered everything you said Rod. Be honest, you didn’t think I’d do it did you. Anyway, this has been a great exercise for me (debunking your views on the evils of the Bill). Come back when you develop a real skill for argumentation.

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